Rishi Sunak and the ‘real good’ special relationship

This is an audio transcript of the Political Fix podcast episode: ‘Rishi Sunak and the ‘real good’ special relationship’

George Parker
The key thing to come out of this was this focus on economic security. And essentially, this is Rishi Sunak accepting, grudgingly or not, basically what some people are calling the new Washington consensus.

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Lucy Fisher
Hi. Welcome to Political Fix, your essential insider guide to Westminster from the Financial Times with me, Lucy Fisher, the FT’s Whitehall editor. You heard there my colleague George Parker talking about Rishi Sunak’s trip to the White House. We’ll be analysing the indispensable alliance between the UK and the US. Plus, we’ll have exclusive FT analysis on Keir Starmer’s remaking of the Labour party. And here to kick us off, our FT Political Fix regulars, FT columnist Miranda Green. Hi, Miranda.

Miranda Green
Hello, Lucy.

Lucy Fisher
And we’re joined down the line by the FT’s UK chief political commentator, Robert Shrimsley. So before we get down to business, let’s hear about your moments of the week. Robert, what’s caught your attention?

Robert Shrimsley
Well, I’m gonna go slightly left field. The thing that I’m very, very interested by is the news that the Telegraph Media Group, which includes not only the Daily Telegraph, but the Spectator, looks like it’s gonna have to go up for sale after the holding company was put into administration because its owners, the Barclay brothers, owed significant amounts of money to Lloyds Bank and Lloyds Bank got fed up with waiting. And what’s interesting about this and what a big news media title doesn’t come on to the market very often, and the Telegraph and the Spectator are essentially the two most important titles for members of the Conservative party, and they have enormous, enormous influence on matters like leadership elections and future direction. So while that would be too much to say that if you buy the Telegraph and the Spectator you’ve bought the Conservative party — that would be overdoing it — (Lucy laughs) you will buy enormous influence in the future direction of that party, potentially (inaudible) Conservatives lose the election when the leadership and the future direction is up for grabs. So I think it’s gonna be a really fascinating contest to own those titles.

Lucy Fisher
I totally agree with you. And Robert, like you, I have worked for the Telegraph before and it really is the house journal of Tory MPs. They fell over themselves to talk to me. Miranda, what about you?

Miranda Green
Well, I suppose it’s good to sort of mark a moment. And Caroline Lucas, the only MP for the Green party for many, many years in the House of Commons, is finally standing down at the coming general election. And I suppose whatever your politics, just imagining what her life has been like, the only representative in parliament of her party, I mean, she has colleagues in the House of Lords, but of course they are appointees, so it’s very different. And in that constituency, it’s also been quite interesting, Brighton Pavilion, which she’s held for many years now, because the other non-conservative sort of I suppose shorthand progressive parties do kind of give her a clear run at elections. I mean, they stand, but they don’t really actively campaign against her. She’s quite hot on inter-party co-operation. I think it’s probably gonna be quite interesting to see if the Greens can get themselves another MP. They did quite well in the local elections in May in urban areas particularly. And so they sort of slow build. But in fact, psephologists say that at general elections, the Green vote does tend to fall in behind Labour candidates. And so there’s often a bit of a news story about a possible Green surge that doesn’t actually happen in parliamentary terms. What about you, Lucy? What did you pick up this week?

Lucy Fisher
For me, I’m fascinated that finally after 14 months, we are in the end game of the Privileges Committee investigation into Boris Johnson and whether he misled parliament over his assurances that no lockdown-breaching parties took place in Downing Street during the pandemic. There’s just a lot of titters among his allies now that he is going to get a sanction of more than 10 days that could trigger a recall petition; in turn, could spark a by-election, which, of course, threatens his future as an MP. Also this week, we’ve seen Margaret Ferrier, the MP, formerly of the SNP, now an independent since losing the whip. She has faced a 30-day suspension from the Commons for breaking the Covid rules. And so that’s being lined up in the minds of many as a sort of precedent or a threshold. That means that it looks likely in some ways that Boris Johnson would certainly get more than 10 days. But of course, they faced different allegations. They were actually investigated by different committees. She was investigated by the standards, he’s faced the privileges. So it’s all a bit unclear, but we’re expecting the results of this in two weeks now. So I’m sure that something will return to.

Miranda Green
By-elections are great sport. And if you have a former prime minister who’s a national figure, who’s both loved and hated, it would be very entertaining.

Robert Shrimsley
Do you think he’d actually run if there’s a, if they get to the by-elections day, or would he jump away and try and find another seat?

Lucy Fisher
Well, it’s a good question, Robert. I’m not sure what you think. But I mean, it could be in some ways a gift to him to be able to flounce off out of Uxbridge and South Ruislip, where he’s got a 7,000 odd-majority. But it’s looking pretty hairy in the next election, say that this has been a political witch hunt and then go and find a safe seat somewhere else.

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So let’s move on to the main discussion. Rishi Sunak has been in the US where the relationship between him and Joe Biden seems to be ticking along nicely.

Joe Biden
Well, Mr President, I just demoted you. Mr Prime Minister, it’s great to have you back.

Lucy Fisher
Good vibes then, between President Biden and Rishi Sunak on this visit and quite a turnaround from just a few months ago when President Biden struggled even to pronounce Rishi Sunak’s name.

Joe Biden
We’ve got news (people cheering) that Rashu, Rashu Sunak (mispronounced) is now the prime minister. As my brother would say, go figure. (Laughter)

Lucy Fisher
Oh dear, that clip still makes me cringe. Well, let’s look at the substance of the visit and in particular, the outcome of the joint press conference in the White House between Sunak and Biden on Thursday night. The FT’s George Parker was there.

George Parker
Well, I’ve just come out of the east wing of the White House where President Joe Biden and Rishi Sunak will be having a press conference at the end of their meeting here in Washington. And we’re being hustled off to the buses, straight out to Andrews Air Force Base. But just to give you a quick update of where we are, and it’s been a very interesting meeting actually. Didn’t start all that well, I have to say. You had President Biden in the Oval Office having that slightly stilted chat with the prime minister and you don’t know where is this going to go. But in the end, the Downing Street people thought the meeting went well. There was a 40-minute, one-to-one discussion between the president and the prime minister just with no officials at all, which is quite unusual, followed by a quite lengthy bilateral with officials present.

And I suppose the key thing to come out of this was this focus on economic security. And essentially this is Rishi Sunak accepting, grudgingly or not, what some people are calling the new Washington consensus. But I think at this meeting, Rishi Sunak basically had to go along with this and basically get what he could for Britain within the terms of this new consensus that Joe Biden’s been setting out. So of course, there was no free trade agreement, that long-promised Brexit dream of a free trade deal, comprehensive free trade deal with America. That’s not on the table. Joe Biden’s not offering that. Instead of which, we got something that was grandly billed the new Atlantic declaration. This was a sort of idea of basically talked about some niche deals to try to improve Britain’s trading relationship with America in the context of economic security.

Lucy Fisher
So as George said there, the Atlantic declaration is a rather grand title. Robert, how substantive is it really, do you think?

Robert Shrimsley
I think that as summits go, this one wasn’t too bad in terms of delivering some meaty things. I think the fundamental fact is you have two conflicting pressures on Britain and in its efforts to work with American men.

The first is that the US, and particularly a president like Joe Biden, who, as George indicated, are fairly sceptical of this Conservative government but opponents of Brexit are looking at the UK and thinking, is it as important? Do we care as much about the UK as we once did?

And on the other hand, you have this enduring defence and intelligence relationship which underpins so much of whatever is special about the special relationship. And I think what you’re seeing here with the artificial intelligence, with the issues around subsidies in the IRA and how you handle British goods, I think what you’re seeing is that security relationship coming back to the fore and the British government and Rishi Sunak using it to say, look, we are a very reliable partner to the US and have proved to be so over decades. Of course, you’re going to want to be working with the European Union in particular, but Britain has proved its reliability.

And I think what you’re seeing is a recognition from the Democratic president that this is how it is and that actually it’s important to bring Britain into conversations, particularly since it would be very easy to draw up a sort of EU-US arrangement and everyone else would have to fall into line. So I think for the medium-sized powers like Britain, like Japan, like Australia, are also very keen to make sure that their voice is heard in the new hegemony. And so I think it’s a reasonably successful visit in as far as these visits ever deliver anything very much.

Lucy Fisher
Miranda, what’s your take? In particular, it does seem like it was a bit of a win for Rishi Sunak to get agreement on the UK hosting this big AI summit in the autumn.

Miranda Green
Yes, absolutely. I mean, some sort of pivotal role in the conversation of the moment is really, you know, quite a big win, definitely a feather in Sunak’s cap to secure that because this is, you know, being flagged as potentially an existential threat to humanity. But it’s also a big commercial opportunity and you know that he’ll be hosting world leaders. The tech titans will be wanting to influence London, which actually gives us an important role. I say us because, you know, it’s hard not to swell with pride a little bit (Lucy laughs) when we have tiny wins these days.

You know, I think also what’s quite interesting is that because Sunak has not been able to secure this prize of the trade deal with Washington and in fact, George Osborne couldn’t quite resist, could he, tweeting to say, seems like we might be at the back of the queue, which was the warning that Barack Obama famously delivered during the Brexit campaign and which backfired so badly. But also, you know, there are a lot of people in the Tory party who’ve become very worried about the influence of China. And so in a sense, I mean, Robert’s absolutely right that it’s not as if the Sunak government and the Biden government see eye to eye on, you know, political economy questions, but they do see eye to eye potentially on needing to buttress western economies against too much involvement and dependence on China. And there are lots of people on the Tory benches who will be really pleased to see us in alliance with America on that.

Lucy Fisher
Yeah. Robert, I mean, it feels to me that Sunak has quite successfully exploited the sort of national security angle when it comes to economic co-operation and trade with sort of agreements on working more closely on critical minerals, semiconductors, microchips and so forth. What do you make of the personal chemistry between the two men? It did to me look significantly warmer this time round than we’ve seen previously?

Robert Shrimsley
Yes. I mean, I think President Biden recognises him now, which is . . . (Lucy and Miranda laugh)

Lucy Fisher
Literally!

Robert Shrimsley
You know, I mean, I’ve never put very much by personal chemistry in terms of the relationship (inaudible) unless it’s really special. I mean, Thatcher, Reagan, clearly an immense deep personal chemistry. It’s quite unusual. I don’t put much by because in the end countries are driven by their own national interests and whether leaders like each other will always be subordinated to the specific political and strategic goals they have. On the other hand, you can see that it’s warming up a little bit in as far as that matters. And I think it is, it will be very interesting when you start talking to Conservatives next year about how they feel about the presidential election.

Miranda Green
Did you not also think, though, both of you, that this contrast between Sunak, who’s 43 and is sort of making a thing of his youth and energy; the contrast with Biden, who’s 80 and we’re potentially gonna have another US presidential election, where it’s gerontocracy on show. That contrast felt slightly unhappy to me for the White House, actually.

Lucy Fisher
That’s interesting. I’d say I noticed it, too. But to me, it sort of was a bit awkward for both of them. It made Sunak look like a schoolboy, almost.

Miranda Green
Very geeky.

Lucy Fisher
Very geeky, head boy energy. And what do you make of it, Robert?

Robert Shrimsley
Yeah. I mean, I think I agree with you. I get it. But I think there’s no way around it for Biden. You know, he is the age. He is . . . and his age will be used against him in the next presidential election. So he has to almost, you know, spin into it. I’m a wise old bird. Rishi Sunak, again, I think, you know, he’s young, he’s energetic. He’s not gonna be particularly young for a prime minister come to the next election.

Lucy Fisher
It’s interesting also that there are whispers sort of filtering out at the end of this week that the Tories are considering using Keir Starmer’s age as an attack line. I think he’s about 15-odd years older than Rishi Sunak, so it will be interesting to see if that develops and if it chimes, because I personally think Keir Starmer looks really good for his age. He doesn’t feel to me old.

Miranda Green
It’s an odd line of attack since Starmer’s entire appeal needs to be based around the idea that he’s an experienced pair of hands. You know, having run, been DPP, run a major sort of arm of the state, etc. I’m not sure how that goes over, but we’ll wait and see. Anyway, 60s — spring chicken in American terms (laughter), isn’t it?

Robert Shrimsley
I mean, I suppose if you think about the argument that they would try to construct (inaudible), it’s not really that he’s too old. It’s that you’re saying we’re getting into a bold and uncertain future and you need someone who encapsulates the future rather than is part of the past. So I can see the attack line. And I have to say I think it’s a bit desperate and won’t work, but I can see what they’re struggling towards.

Lucy Fisher
Well, let’s talk about Labour’s Keir Starmer in more detail. He’s been keen to reference Joe Biden himself this week as Sunak’s been in DC. The Labour leader’s been restating the case for green growth in a speech to the GMB.

Keir Starmer
Our green prosperity plan, like President Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act, is our plan for growth. And because we are Labour, it is a plan for working people, their jobs and their prosperity.

Lucy Fisher
I’ve spoken to Jim Pickard, the FT’s deputy political editor, who’s been taking a deep dive into Keir Starmer’s plans for government.

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Hi, Jim.

Jim Pickard
Hello.

Lucy Fisher
So, Jim, you have done a fantastic three-part series on Labour. A really big, deep dive into how Keir Starmer has ideologically tucked away from his predecessor in terms of the policies he’s putting forward. You’ve looked at how he has transformed the party internally, and along with Chris Giles, the economics editor, the paper’s had a look at the economic inheritance that Starmer is going to have if he wins the election. So firstly, let’s talk about some of those bold policies. Give us your appraisal of where Labour is right now. What are the most election-winning, vote-winning promises he’s got? And what are the sort of biggest risks in terms of the policy platform?

Jim Pickard
So I think the best way to describe the offering, which Labour is gonna take to the electorate in the general election that we expect next year, is basically soft-left, classic Labour policies reminiscent of Ed Miliband, who was leader between 2010 and 2015 and not really as rightwing as Tony Blair, and definitely, definitely not as leftwing as Jeremy Corbyn, his predecessor. And is kind of . . . There are two halves of this. On the one side, they’ve been incredibly cautious on things like immigration, crime, Brexit. They’re being quite rightwing and on a lot of those policies it’s very hard to discern much difference with the Conservative party.

Lucy Fisher
Mm-hmm.

Jim Pickard
That’s all about basically defending themselves from Conservative attacks. And one person in Keir Starmer’s team, he described to me as being a bit like having a defensive four players in a football analogy, doing the defensive stuff, and they’ve been used to the more fancy footwork up front. And in their view of things the fancy footwork is the more interesting economic policy, which is actually quite radical and in some respects probably more radical than Ed Miliband was a decade ago.

And therefore we have a green prosperity plan, which was announced a couple of years ago, £28bn of borrowing every year. And that would go into, you know, huge rollout of renewable energy, insulation program, basically accelerating the shift towards net-zero by 2050.

And then along with that, you’ve also got some quite big employment policies: you know, improved maternity/paternity rights, flexible working, the right to disconnect on weekends and holidays, that kind of thing.

To answer your specific question of which are the vote-winning policies and which are the riskiest, the vote-winning question is a very good one, which is that what Ed Miliband found and what Jeremy Corbyn found was that you can have specific policies which are popular, but when you add them all up together, they can turn out to be conceptually unpopular, especially if the public is worried about are they too expensive.

Lucy Fisher
Yeah.

Jim Pickard
How are you gonna pay for them?

Lucy Fisher
Well, on that front, let’s talk about the green prosperity plan, because as you mentioned, that was set out several years ago at a time when interest rates were 0.1 per cent. Now, of course, they’re 4.5 per cent, set to rise further. It’s gonna entail a lot of borrowing, isn’t it? And there’s some nerves around the shadow cabinet table about the cost of this.

Jim Pickard
Yes. One of those fascinating things, which is that this was announced in the September 2021 Labour conference, and I remember being very interested at the time, but the way it was briefed out was very halfhearted. It didn’t get much pickup. I thought it was a really interesting thing, but then I’m kind of have a geeky interest in green energy. And it just kind of sat there, not really explored very deeply. They’ve set out some of the specific policies, spending policies under that umbrella, but not all of that money has been allocated yet. But of course, as we get close to the election, of course, we the media are more interested in it. The Conservatives are more interested in it because they see it as a brilliant dividing line. You know, you look at these leftwingers borrowing money like they always do, and it’s a very clear attack line from the Conservatives. This was something that, you know, I’ve been working on this project since about January, and I asked our capital markets colleagues to ask around the markets in January or February about, you know, what the bond market experts think about this. And they were fairly unruffled then. But when colleagues went back and asked the same question a week or two ago, they found quite a few experts saying, actually there is the potential for this to push up Britain’s borrowing costs and potentially push up borrowing costs for households and companies.

Lucy Fisher
So does Keir Starmer have manoeuvring, do you think, to try and tweak this policy? Could he try and include spending on hospital or school infrastructure if it has a green bent inside this fold?

Jim Pickard
Yep. So there’s a couple of elements to this. The first is that they are already saying, well, look, it’s £28bn extra from where spending was in 2021, so that makes it a little smaller. If the government spends more money, we knock that off. Also, it won’t get up and running for a couple of years. And also it needs to be within our fiscal rules, which are that, you know, in five years after taking government and the debt-to-GDP ratio needs to be falling. So that’s already happening. But I also reported a couple of weeks ago that there was a debate at a high level of Labour that maybe they should rebrand it because in America it’s the Inflation Reduction Act. It doesn’t have the word green. In Australia it’s called something like the reconstruction programme. But again, it doesn’t say green. And there are people who are just saying that can we just call it a jobs fund? Because for most voters, jobs are much more important than green issues on a day-to-day basis.

Lucy Fisher
I think it’s interesting what you say about the possible rebranding of it, because it feels to me it hasn’t really had cut through with voters. And if you ask that question, what is Starmerism? Even who is Keir Starmer? The public still seem to be a bit unclear about that. And there were two graphs in your first long read, Jim, which I thought were fascinating when comparing where Blair was just before he won ’97 landslide election with where Starmer is now a year or more out from an election perhaps. And interestingly, on leader satisfaction, Blair was consistently topping 60-plus, whereas Starmer’s currently trailing at about minus-20. And then when you look at Labour voting intention, Blair was on sort of almost 60 per cent high fifties and Labour’s doing well on 44 per cent, about 15 points ahead of the Conservatives, but still far below those figures before that New Labour landslide.

Jim Pickard
Yeah, exactly. And turning luckily for Keir Starmer, he’s not in a race against Tony Blair. He’s in a race against Rishi Sunak and luckily for him I think Rishi Sunak is slightly more unpopular than Keir Starmer. But this does come to the point that there was an opinion poll this week commissioned by an internationalist pressure group for Best for Britain, and it generates the headline which a lot of newspapers picked up on, which is that on current polling, Labour would have a majority, a landslide majority, you remember, of over 140 seats. When you dug into the detail of this poll, it was very clear that they were making two slightly dodgy assumptions. They were assuming that the rightwing Brexiteer post-Brexit party, I (whispers) always forget what it’s called.

Lucy Fisher
Reform.

Jim Pickard
Yeah. They assume that Reform, as forgettable as their name may be, they still . . . 

Lucy Fisher
Not to be confused with Reclaim, while I remember.

Jim Pickard
There are too many battling rightwing parties on the fringe. But this polling was presuming that they wouldn’t do some kind of electoral deal with the Tories. And it also assumed that the very large numbers of undecided voters would not actually vote. And what the poll also said was that those undecided voters split very, very strongly towards the Conservatives. So, yeah, I think any headlines about landslides take with an enormous pinch of salt.

Lucy Fisher
And just finally, Jim, I loved the who’s who you did. And I have to admit there are even some names there that I didn’t recognise, despite kind of covering Westminster and being on the estate day in, day out. I mean, the obvious names, the likes of Rachel Reeves, who are some of the names we might be hearing more of in the next year and certainly if Labour head into Downing Street?

Jim Pickard
So I think some of the characters that you’ll see more of, especially if Labour wins the next election or forms the next government. Shabana Mahmood is someone who doesn’t have any public profile at all really, but she, as the sort of campaigns figure in the shadow cabinet, is hugely powerful and influential in terms of things like message discipline and policymaking by the shadow cabinet. I think Morgan McSweeney, who’s a backroom operator who has been leading a lot of the kind of internal changes. I think Rachel Reeves cannot underestimate how much this is a job play at the top of the party. She’s in charge of economic policy. We picked out nearly 50 people for our organigram of Starmer Power. I think you can have a little debate about whether we’ve got the right ones or not, but that’s part of the fun of doing that kind of thing.

Lucy Fisher
Has your phone been buzzing with people furious that they’re not on it?

Jim Pickard
(Laughs)

Lucy Fisher
Let’s take that as a yes and move on, shall we? Jim Pickard, thanks so much for joining us today. And I urge everyone to go and read The Starmer Project, three brilliant long reads.

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Lucy Fisher
So that was Jim talking about Labour and he was absolutely on the money, wasn’t he, Miranda and Robert, that Labour looked to be rowing back from that very expensive spending commitments. Since I spoke to Jim on Friday morning, Rachel Reeves made clear that £28bn a year was very much the ambition that Labour would build towards over their term in power rather than an initial amount that they would spend annually. Robert, are you surprised by that, by that rowback?

Robert Shrimsley
Oh, no, not at all. And I think, as you say, Jim, in his long read, pretty much told us where they were going to go. The fact is, as you said, the economic circumstances have changed. They’ve got a lot of things they want to do in government. And if they hamstring themselves too much, this one commitment is gonna make it harder to do the other things, which actually are probably more immediate priorities to a lot of people in the country. So, I think it was inevitable they had to do this. They could also see that the Conservatives were beginning to crank up the attacks on their fiscal approach to their commitments to borrowing.

And I think one of the things I learned, I mean I thought the Big Reads that you referred to were really brilliant. One of the things they really rammed home, they really put into shape the nature of the argument that is gonna happen at the next election. And it’s not just on the spending plans on the environment but also a very substantial agenda on workers’ rights. Lots of reforms that they are planning and many of which individually you will, you might look at and go, oh, I think that’s a good idea. You know, be it right to disconnect, or right to work from day one or whatever it is. But in a totality, businesses are gonna look at this and say that’s an awful lot of change, that’s an awful lot of extra bureaucracy and cost. So I think it’s gonna be absolutely fascinating to watch over the next year how ready Labour is to draw lines in the sand, say no, this is actually what we believe and we’re gonna fight for this, or how much other things are elided as the election gets closer.

Lucy Fisher
Yeah. I think it’s interesting what you say because what Starmer has tried to project is this air of reassurance when it comes to the economy. But when you look at all these pieces put together, they do mean more bureaucracy for businesses and they are incredibly expensive. One fact I just dug out after speaking to Jim from his long read was that when Labour’s plan — now rolled back from a £28bn a year — is actually very much more ambitious than the US’s Inflation Reduction Act in relative terms. The Biden plan is estimated to cost around £37bn a year. But the US of course has five times the population and eight times the GDP. Miranda, overall stepping back, how convinced are you by Keir Starmer’s transformation of the Labour party?

Miranda Green
So I think, he was starting from a very, very difficult place. I mean, it’s you know, that line from High Society, if you start at the bottom of a coal mine and work your way up to the top, you’re still in on the ground. You know, he had a long way to recover from the Corbyn era. And I think as Jim’s, the section of Jim’s series which deals with the sort of transformation, the expulsion of the hard left, that part has been a total success, really. I think this central policy question of the platform that will maximally appeal to the electorate whilst making sure that Rachel Reeves, who now seems to be dominant after this little spat in the shadow cabinet, has an iron grip on the idea that Labour can run the economy in a responsible way. That is a really difficult balancing act, and the next year is gonna be so interesting to see how they pull it off, because it seems to me, as well as showing this reassurance and, you know, the iron fist of Rachel Reeves behind everything, making sure they don’t make irresponsible spending commitments.

They do need something. That famous dismissive remark of Sarah Palin about Obama, the hopey-changey stuff. If you haven’t got some of the hopey-changey stuff and you’re the Labour party, what are you actually offering? And the problem is trust in politics is so low now you have to convince people both that you’re competent and that you’re actually going to make some improvement to people’s lives. And so you have to have that radical element but within these very, very tough constraints, particularly with the economy, economic landscape looking so challenging. So I think it’s really, really hard to say yet whether they’ll pull it off. And of course, there’s unhappiness also in parts of the Labour party and the GMB union seems to be very nervous about the green jobs plan. You know, potentially if you stop all North Sea oil and gas exploration, that’s a threat to a lot of jobs in Scotland. You better be very, very sure what you’re planning to replace those jobs with.

Lucy Fisher
We’ll return to the subject, no doubt. That’s all we’ve got time for on the substantive political discussion. Robert, tell us what you’ve been up to outside of politics this week.

Robert Shrimsley
Well, actually, the big thing is coming tonight because I’m going to see James Graham’s new play, Dear England, on the National Theatre, which is something I’ve been looking forward to for a while. It’s all about Gareth Southgate and his transformation of the England team not so much as a football event, but also in terms of the way he projected a different form of patriotism for the country. I don’t know if people remember, he famously wrote a Dear England letter explaining to supporters that it’s possible to be completely committed to your England football career and incredibly proud to wear the shirt, but also have views on things like racism and broader discrimination and inequality and want to speak out. And this offering of a different form of patriotism, which made Gareth Southgate extremely interesting and he’s being played by Joseph Fiennes, which I guess is slightly flattering (laughter). And I’m looking forward to seeing that at the National.

Miranda Green
You lucky thing, Robert. Honestly, James Graham’s plays are so . . . He writes about politics like nobody else, doesn’t he really? Lucy, what have you been doing this week in your cultural life?

Lucy Fisher
In my cultural life . . .

Miranda Green
If you have time for such a thing (Lucy laughs).

Lucy Fisher
Well, I’ve got a bit of time tomorrow so, mine hasn’t happened yet either. But I’ve been invited by a dear old school friend of mine to trooping the colour, the King’s birthday parade. And to my shame actually, because I used to cover defence and I’ve, you know, a number of times I’ve been down to Salisbury Plain and seen, you know, fantastic demos of all the hardware. I’ve never actually been to a big military parade like this. It’ll be 1,400 officers, 200 horses, 400 military musicians, and I think it should be a great spectacle. How about you, Miranda?

Miranda Green
Well, I read a very interesting book, which is kind of political. It’s called The Invention of Essex, and I’ve reviewed it for the Saturday FT, if people are interested. And I’ve got some family background in Essex. This is by a guy called Tim Burrows. And it’s political because he does a lot on the kind of aspirational weirdness of Essex, which of course famously means swing voters in Basildon, for example. But there’s also brilliant writing about the marshlands and the weird history and the kind of utopian projects and strange sects, one of which my great grandparents were in, in fact, that made their home in Essex, and I really recommend this. A very peculiar part of the Southeast and a county that’s kind of, they’re at the other home counties are sniffy about, but politically interesting and culturally interesting, too.

Lucy Fisher
Great. Can’t wait to read your review. Miranda, Robert, thanks for joining me.

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Lucy Fisher
And that’s it for this episode of the FT’s Political Fix. If you like the podcast, do subscribe. You can find us through all the usual channels to receive episodes as soon as they’re released. We also appreciate positive reviews and ratings. It really does help spread the word. Political Fix was presented by me, Lucy Fisher, and produced by Anna Dedhar and Audrey Tinline. Manuela Saragosa is the executive producer and the sound engineering and original music was by Breen Turner. Cheryl Brumley is the FT’s global head of audio. We’ll meet here again, same time, same place next week.

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